Amen to this. The zen of realising I control my choices. Terrifying. Then liberating, transcendental? *And* it applies to my writing too! :) Know thyself. Have wisdom to spot should's from could's and the maybe so's?? Merely a lifetime's work then! :) Simple :)
I do agree that there's an obligation to consider readers: who are they (the readers you want: there will always be readers you don't want) and what would you like to give them? It's dealing with that relationship honestly that constitutes the integrity, perhaps? I think the point I was making in the post is that information from feedback is only ever more data to help you to do that: to discern the honest
line to take between what we want to write, and what will speak best to the readers we want to speak to.
The integrity I have in mind is something like eg respecting historical facts in a Historical Novel, being “fair” in a detective novel etc. Which isn’t to say you should never write an anti-historical novel but if you do it should be clear, at least by the end.
As you say, those things are important if they're important for the kind of book you're writing - and it certainly pisses readers off if you don't play by the rules that they feel are implicit in the genre. But for me, at least, I don't think of that as a question of integrity so much as plain old good craftsmanship: making sure your reader gets the book as you want them to get it. That's about doing a good writing job - which is part of one's sense of self - but more of one's own sense of honest selfhood comes from something slightly different, as in your point further up.
Where fidelity to historical fact comes on that spectrum, I'm not sure. On one hand: "This is a novel. None of it never happened. Get over it." On the other hand, as a historian said to me in an argument, "Just because no one is killing anyone over Elizabeth Woodville just at the moment doesn't mean that getting the facts right doesn't matter..."
Super advice, thank you! It's a great way to frame it. The positive spin of possibility thrown on any feedback really opens the mind, even on a piece that has had a lot of passion poured into it. I think you go further than I have on the past. I've taken every piece of feedback and thought that I have to do something about all of it, just not necessarily what the reviewer suggested. The simple trick of turning should into could will make me even more inclined to put real effort into trying out precisely what readers have asked. There is nothing to lose but a little time, and something truly creative might come out of it. Off-the-wall ideas are great, and maybe they don't have to be off the wall generically, just off my own wall.
I'm glad it's useful, Julian. And yes, it's always our right to say "No thanks!" - but, as you say, perhaps not till we've had a dig in to see if there's a kernel of usefulness in there somewhere ...
I think it was Emma or her mate, Debi Alper, who said something akin to: readers are always *right* about what they do and don't like, but they are always *wrong* about the solution. :)
Thank you! And, oh, sympathies on the feedback - it is wearing even when it's not acutely painful. Do you know my Itch posts on moving point of view? They might help you figure out what's needed. Easter chocolate also sovereign against sore writerly bruises, of course...
Amen to this. The zen of realising I control my choices. Terrifying. Then liberating, transcendental? *And* it applies to my writing too! :) Know thyself. Have wisdom to spot should's from could's and the maybe so's?? Merely a lifetime's work then! :) Simple :)
I think we do have obligations to our readers though. Quite hard to formulate, but they’re something to do with integrity.
I do agree that there's an obligation to consider readers: who are they (the readers you want: there will always be readers you don't want) and what would you like to give them? It's dealing with that relationship honestly that constitutes the integrity, perhaps? I think the point I was making in the post is that information from feedback is only ever more data to help you to do that: to discern the honest
line to take between what we want to write, and what will speak best to the readers we want to speak to.
Integrity to one's highest self first though? Yes? Otherwise, which reader comes before the others, and indeed, before one's self?
This above all - to thine own self be true.(?)
The integrity I have in mind is something like eg respecting historical facts in a Historical Novel, being “fair” in a detective novel etc. Which isn’t to say you should never write an anti-historical novel but if you do it should be clear, at least by the end.
As you say, those things are important if they're important for the kind of book you're writing - and it certainly pisses readers off if you don't play by the rules that they feel are implicit in the genre. But for me, at least, I don't think of that as a question of integrity so much as plain old good craftsmanship: making sure your reader gets the book as you want them to get it. That's about doing a good writing job - which is part of one's sense of self - but more of one's own sense of honest selfhood comes from something slightly different, as in your point further up.
Where fidelity to historical fact comes on that spectrum, I'm not sure. On one hand: "This is a novel. None of it never happened. Get over it." On the other hand, as a historian said to me in an argument, "Just because no one is killing anyone over Elizabeth Woodville just at the moment doesn't mean that getting the facts right doesn't matter..."
Super advice, thank you! It's a great way to frame it. The positive spin of possibility thrown on any feedback really opens the mind, even on a piece that has had a lot of passion poured into it. I think you go further than I have on the past. I've taken every piece of feedback and thought that I have to do something about all of it, just not necessarily what the reviewer suggested. The simple trick of turning should into could will make me even more inclined to put real effort into trying out precisely what readers have asked. There is nothing to lose but a little time, and something truly creative might come out of it. Off-the-wall ideas are great, and maybe they don't have to be off the wall generically, just off my own wall.
I'm glad it's useful, Julian. And yes, it's always our right to say "No thanks!" - but, as you say, perhaps not till we've had a dig in to see if there's a kernel of usefulness in there somewhere ...
I think it was Emma or her mate, Debi Alper, who said something akin to: readers are always *right* about what they do and don't like, but they are always *wrong* about the solution. :)
Both of us, probably, but it was Neil Gaiman first - and probably yer man Shakespeare or Aeschylus or someone before that ...
Fitting company for you and debi 😊
Ha!
I appreciate this take on things. I see so often in writing groups where people assume that what works for them will work for everyone.
As in writing groups, so in life ... Glad you like the post.
Happy Easter! Appreciate this, been feeling beat down by feedback on head hopping and this helped me pick myself up and plod forward.
Thank you! And, oh, sympathies on the feedback - it is wearing even when it's not acutely painful. Do you know my Itch posts on moving point of view? They might help you figure out what's needed. Easter chocolate also sovereign against sore writerly bruises, of course...